Kentucky Chess Association
                         USCF Affiliate

The USChess state affiliate for all of Kentucky.

Chess Talk

Post Reply
Forum Home > KCA Issues > KCA Meeting

Ryan Velez
Posts: 272

In Taylor and Miami's absence at the KCA meeting today, I took the minutes. I will post them up tomorrow for all to view and I will be working on them tonight to organize them coherently!


April 12, 2015 at 8:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan Velez
Posts: 272

Meeting began at 2:09 PM and ended at 5:06 PM


In attendance was


President Randas Burns
Vice President Ryan Velez
Scholastic Coordinator Larry Bell
Treasurer Davis Whaley
Webmaster Johnny Harlamert
Western Representative Johnny Owens

KCA Lawyer Matt Hassen


Central Representative Miami Fugatte was in Florida and in attendance via cell phone if he was needed.

Secretary Taylor Bagley was playing in the High School Nationals in Ohio.


Ryan Velez kept the minutes in absence of Taylor Bagley.


The meeting began with Davis receiving various checks from Ryan Velez, John Simons, and Larry Bell for events and outstanding business.


Treasurer Improvements & Taxes

The next order of business to discuss was information about taxes. Regarding the taxes, we paid $25 in estimated taxes for 2014.

The KCA will likely have to pay some back taxes going back to 2010 and we’re working with the IRS to figure out this amount. We have a near-complete financial history of the KCA over the period in question. The years 2011 – 2013 are accounted for but the checks from this period do not always have anything written in the memo section. There are also limited financial reports and documentation from this period. However, most of the checks can be accounted for based on near-equivalent amounts year to year when corresponded to dates year to year. The Treasurer Davis Whaley still has some work to do regarding the back taxes, most of which has to do with the years 2011 – 2013. The board authorized Davis to spend up to $250 on obtaining checks from this period at a rate of $2 per check.


To improve the Treasurer, and Board, practices, Davis requested that anyone who writes a check for the KCA be very clear in the “memo” section in the future. He has also requested that we keep all receipts both to comply with the future 501c3 status of the KCA as well as for more clean bookkeeping practices. Previous boards did not do a good job with this and so we are rectifying it. The board also approved for Davis to buy a scanner so that electronic copies of all checks/receipts may be kept on file. This suggestion was created by Ryan Velez, seconded by Larry Bell, and unanimously agreed upon. Davis will also be obtaining something with which to store 5 years of original receipts. The 5 year number was suggested by Matt Hassen and his stack of law books.


Discussion about whether or not a KCA debit card should be obtained. With Davis Whaley abstaining, the rest of the board voted yes on the measure. The main argument put forth for why we need a KCA debit card was by Johnny Harlamert. There have been issues with not having a debit card have to do with website maintenance. For the moment, everything is paid for by Johnny and he needs to be reimbursed. If Johnny were to quit and keep ownership of the KCA domain names, which actually did happen with former webmaster John Stewart, then the KCA cannot have its own domain names when it needs them. However, if everything were in the KCA’s name, then everything would be fine. Therefore, the KCA agreed the debit card would be in possession of the treasurer and its information can be approved & transmitted to the webmaster, and other board members, when necessary.


The board authorized Matt Hassen to sign tax-related paperwork on the board’s behalf so he may push through the tax work.


Lastly, the KCA has now obtained a Paypal account.


Scholastic Coordinator Improvements, Quads, and a Bid System

As the KCA wants to behave in accordance with 501c3 statutes, we all agreed we must walk the walk before obtaining the status. Matt Hassen will be filing all 501c3 paperwork and said it could take 1 year or more to eventually get 501c3 status. However, the application will get done. Until the KCA obtains 501c3 status, the board will begin taking steps to behave like a 501c3 as outlined above.


We also determined what a “KCA event” means legally with Matt Hassen’s help. The relevant consideration is the nature of the contractual relationship between the KCA and organizers with respect to entitlement to income and undertaking of financial risk. With that in mind we set out to clearly define that relationship.

Therefore, Ryan Velez put forth a couple of suggestions to help be 501c3 compliant. What was decided upon was that the Quad events would become KCA events more formally. This means all Quads will be giving the KCA money based on the following scale:


(1) If a Quad has 126 kids or more then that Quad will pay $1.00 to the KCA per participant minus scholarship kids (which is usually a fairly low number).


(2) If a quad has 125 or less kids then they pay $0.25 per participant.

These numbers weren’t randomly generated. The per-participant fee is the USCF’s preferred payment structure for its national events. Also, Ryan Velez did a study on the quads for about 2 weeks before this meeting to determine what numbers would be reasonable. Here are his findings looking at the past 21 years of Quad events:


Quad A = 80 player average

Quad B = 218 player average

Quad C = 169 player average

Quad D = 50 player average


In the meeting Ryan mistakenly told the board Quad D was a 60 player average but it is in fact exactly 50 kids over 21 years. Adding up all of the averages and dividing by 4 you get around 130. Therefore, Ryan put forth the 125 kid suggestion based on this number with the rationalization that there are 2 quads above this number and 2 quads below this number. It was reduced from 130 by 5 because there are usually around 5 kids with free entry due to financial hardship at the quads in which Ryan has had experience.

The second issue was pay scale of the tournament directors. All board members and several KCA members have asked the question “How much is fair pay for TDs?” No one has answered it directly because no one knows the answer. In the end it was unanimously agreed upon that being a tournament director is a specialized skill so paying above minimum wage was necessary. We also agreed that the different levels of tournament directing certification merit different pay to both reward that person’s time investment as well as to give encouragement to others to “up” their TD certification. The following pay scale was devised by Ryan Velez and refined by the Board:

(1) Club TD = $100 per event

(2) Local TD = $100 per event + $0.25 per participant

(3) Senior TD = $100 per event + $0.50 per participant

(4) ANTD & NTD = $100 per event + $0.75 per participant


The extra amount “per participant” would only apply after expenses were paid in a top down fashion (ie: NTDs get paid first, then Senior, and then Local).


Lastly, the idea of a bid system was brought up. There was much discussion on the matter. The board was in unanimous agreement that there are very few people who want to run Quad events or KCA events as well as very few people who are capable of doing so, especially the larger events like State Team. Therefore, because the Quads will be giving the KCA an amount of money per student based on attendance, a bid system for those events isn’t necessary.


Because there is no bid system and because each KCA Quad is going to net the KCA an amount per participant, the organizer fee is whatever is left over after expenses are paid.

The non-Quad events – the Grade Level Championship, the State Individual, State Team, KY Open, etc… -- will be run as they have been in the past with the KCA taking in all of the profit after all expenses, including TD payments. The TD pay scale will be used for all state championship events. Should any of the non-Quad events begin to substantially grow, these amounts and pay scales can be revisited.


The KCA will retain all monies generated at State Team as normal as it is the largest money maker for KCA. The above TD pay scale will be used.


There is nothing listed for the “Computer TD” as the board did not discuss it. An amendment to the minutes may be posted with e-mail discussion as it is an important key position that should merit pay.

The board voted on all of the above measures and both Ryan Velez and Larry Bell abstained from voting. The measures all passed unanimously.

Webmaster Improvements

The above discussion on the debit card is the first improvement to help the webmaster position. Secondly, a new domain was purchased for the KCA which is Johnny Harlamert has been building a new KCA website. He said he may be releasing a beta version for people to use to give him suggestions for improvements.

Other Board Position Improvements

Ryan Velez will be typing up a document that outlines what each board member’s responsibilities are. This document’s purpose is to demonstrate what responsibilities each board position has that have always been assumed but never written down. This document will give new board members an idea of what to do and when to do it by. Thus, it will include responsibilities and a general calendar (ie: “Do *this* by December, etc…”;) so that people understand, when running for a board position, what is expected of them. This is not a bylaws re-write because these responsibilities change year to year (ie: a Class championship isn’t run every year).

Bylaws Changes & Potential Litigation

Matt Hassen presented some bylaws changes to the board. The board has until Wednesday to give opinions to one another about the changes and then Matt has until Sunday to submit the final copy. The copy will then be posted online for the membership to view and can be e-mailed to anyone who requests it.

In addition to this the KCA was presented with a Conflict of Interest policy. This policy essentially outlines when certain board members must abstain for voting as well as leaving the room for certain types of votes. This will be posted as well on Sunday and the same review/posting and parameters/deadlines apply to this document as well.

The intention is to get the membership to vote for the bylaws at the June meeting and to give at least a month’s notice for any KCA member to read through them, offer critiques, etc…


The board agreed that Matt Hassen can defend any individual board member against potential litigation. If a conflict of interest were to arise, then the individuals would rescind their agreement with Matt Hassen and seek independent legal counsel.


--Ryan Velez, substitute for Taylor Bagley


April 13, 2015 at 8:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Chris Bush
Limited Member
Posts: 101


Very encouraging news from Ryan!

It sounds like a lot of progress is being made re the tax returns and payments to the KCA, as well as keeping better track of checks and receipts!

Re the bid system, I think that could still be a problem: in lieu of a bid system, maybe there should be a rotation system, i.e., once an Organizer runs a Quad, that Organizer sits out the following year, allowing another capable Organizer the option to run that event. If no capable organizer steps forward by, say, Sept. 30 of the prior year, then the prior Organizer could run the event again. It's possible an Organizer may run a Quad every year, just not the same one (i.e., say no other Organizers step up re other events). Should the Board refuse to accomodate a capable Organizer's request to run a Quad, litigation may still be a possibility in that event between the capable Organizer and the Board, and we could see a replay of some of the tension from the current year. 

"Capable Organizer" would be an Organizer who has run scholastic tournaments for 2 or more years, and has dealt with significant numbers of participants  (50 + might be a floor, but this is only a suggestion; other folks might have different ideas re a floor). Ryan is right that this number may well be small- but, there are folks who meet such a metric, and they should be allowed to participate if they're willing. 

I would also propose a "capacity payment" to a prior Organizer (this concept is borrowed from the electricity generation markets). Say a new capable Organizer wants to do a Quad in a rotation, but is untested. A prior Organizer would be paid, say, $200 to be on standby, just in case the new Organizer has a problem or otherwise is unable to proceed at the end of the day. If the new Organizer runs the tournament, the capacity payment is still made. Call it a backstop for performance purposes. 

For my part, I am willing to review ongoing matters re  some members of the KCA to help ease tension and move folks forward. I can't comment more than this at this time as I have to consult w/ my legal rep and I need to review options. Nonetheless, if I can assist in lessening tensions in the context of defending my position (i.e., there are other matters outside of the disputes handled by the Board which are still a matter of concern),  I would like to do so.

Again, sounds like a very productive Board Meeting. As for the bid system, please consider the rotation concept herein.

Thanks to Ryan for the notes.



(410) 227-9648

April 13, 2015 at 9:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 233

'The board also approved for Davis to buy a scanner so that electronic copies of all checks/receipts may be kept on file.'

How do you guys plan on transferring this information when the next Treasurer takes office?


Anyone that owns a cell phone made in this century already has a scanner. And now that KCA is going to finally own its own domain, you now have a place to secure these receipts. Have Harlement setup an email account specifically for this one purpose: Treasurer (or anyone) takes a picture of the receipt and emails it to the account. SHAZAM! you have a copy of the receipt, stored on the server forever, with as much information in an email you could ever want.

Receipts can be organized within the email account by using directories and such. 

Super-easy, free, permanent solution that never has to be transferred to new officers and never moves away to another state if an officer disappears.

-- - Open chess tournament information

April 14, 2015 at 7:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan P Miller
Posts: 30

It's been a couple of years since I've really been involved with doing TD work for the Quads/State Champs, but it may need more fleshing out aside from the Backroom "Computer" TD as to what constitutes merited pay. The USCF Rulebook lists a number of different "positions" that are filled by certified Tournament Directors, depending on if you structure it by type or by a hierarchy. Hierarchically, you could have a Chief, Asst. Chief, Section Chiefs, and Asst. Sec. TDs. You then have TDs that can be exclusively utilized as "floor" TDs or those that exclusively pair rounds--aka backroom TD.

If we're just saying that we compensate the Chief TD, so be it. It could be argued that the responsibilities of certain TDs who help put on this event put in more legwork than others. There are also people in the past (including myself) that have jumped in last minute and volunteered their time. Would there be a limit to the number of compensated personnel for these events?

Just a couple of thoughts. Maybe should have waited until I'd gotten some sleep after work, but my mind was busy so I probably will sleep better now putting random thoughts on screen.

Thanks for posting the minutes, Ryan!



April 14, 2015 at 8:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan Velez
Posts: 272

Jerry, the plan is to use google sheets, which is free, and google docs that can be used to save everything for free. A contingency option is also to use Dropbox - also free. The save files for receipts will be put into folders for each year.

Ryan Miller, the computer TD does a lot more work than a floor TD. I will be proposing in a board e-mail today that we give the computer TD an amount per entry. For larger events, a computer TD does all of the following:

(1) Takes in all entries
(2) Organizes all payments and tracks who hasnt yet paid
(3) Answers numerous e-mails (between 20 and 200 depending on which state event it is)
(4) Enters all names into the computer
(5) Anyone without a USCF membership must be contacted
(6) and they must pair rounds and rate the event

Floor TDs walk around and answer questions. 

Volunteering is nice but unreliable. Qualified volunteers are not always at events, if they are often times they are with their son/daughter or with a team. When they are available that is good, but it is by no means something to rely on.

The number of TDs depends on two major factors: 

(1) The number of players who signed up
(2) The facility

In the case of the number of players, I like a 50:1 player to TD ratio. Going above this is generally a bad idea because it is difficult to answer each player's question efficiently. In the case of the facility, if you only have 100 players and you accept the 50:1 ratio, that would mean 2 TDs. However, if the event must occur in a facility with 3 rooms for tournament play, then a 3rd TD would be required as one per room would be necessary.

It is also a bad idea to have the computer TD walking around and answering questions. This will slow the event down considerably.


April 14, 2015 at 9:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Chris Bush
Limited Member
Posts: 101


Got some bad news:

1) on advice of counsel, I'm not able to put aside planned legal actions for May 1, 2015; also, an Ethics Complaint filed will be going forward

2) I have not yet received feedback from the KY Attorney General's office re whether a non-profit organization can allow its members to keep the net proceeds of events; am still waiting for info

3) received a letter from the State Bar Association alleging I'm "practicing law" and directing me to cease; no hearing was held, and I will be filing a demand for same;

4) a complaint against Matt Hassen is likely to be filed w/ the Bar: Hassen kept asking for my address, and even referenced a "homeless shelter"; ;yet Davis Whaley had already received a Certified Letter from me w/ my address (asking for the check info); that complaint will be filed shortly


(410) 227-9648

April 14, 2015 at 10:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 233

My Cease & Desist letter did not provide an offer for a hearing.

-- - Open chess tournament information

April 14, 2015 at 4:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan P Miller
Posts: 30

I think my thoughts were overcomplicated. The manner in which Kentucky events have run is an efficient one; the rulebook just happens to state imply that TDs can do both, not that they should.

As for large Kentucky events, the large majority I see the Chief TD on the crosstables as the "Computer" TD, and rightly so. That in itself is enough of a job to deal with, although in situations that a player appeals another TDs ruling, the appeal process would first reach the Chief's desk. (To further elaborate would be a tangent discussion not relevant here).

Everything that followed in Ryan's response is what I was really getting at; aside from the fact that the Computer TD should have a separate "pay scale", the organizer should have guidelines as to what requirements should be met aside from the financing end of things; for example, the staffing necessary to man the floor at a 50:1 ratio, based on average attendance from previous events. (It is also of note that, aside from a couple of the quads, all of the events listed would require the Chief TD to have a Senior level Certification or higher, as it is expected these events will draw more than 100 players).

Maybe such guidelines already exists and I haven't seen it. Again, I've been in and out a lot in regards to playing and directing so my TD experiences have largely been volunteer-based through the encouragement of Steve Dillard. The example that came to mind in my head--specifically, my assisting with the 2013 State Individual--was an anomaly, now looking back.

I just wish to encourage further discussion but might need to yield to those with more recent experience. I hope when things get all settled, I'll be able to help further the mission of enriching chess in Kentucky.



April 15, 2015 at 6:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Chris Bush
Limited Member
Posts: 101

April 15, 2015


Under the advice of counsel, I've put forward a proposal for a Global Settlement Conference re all issues w/ the KCA and yours truly, and ancillary disputes. I've detailed more on this on my listserv to the Board and bcc chess members and organizers. I think that listserv is the best venue to discuss same, but I wanted the entire KCA community to be so advised.



(410) 227-9648

April 15, 2015 at 11:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ken McDonald
Posts: 88

Has a financial analysis been performed to determine the income from KCA scholastic events will meet obligations? The KCA pays stipends of $750 each to the top high school, top middle school, and top female player so they can represent the state in national invitational tournaments. Three players are also invited to the state junior championship and receive a $50 stipend each. That totals $2,400 in expenses.


Anticipated income from the Quads appears to be:

Quad A: 80 players @ $0.25/player = $20.00

Quad B: 218 players @ $1.00/player = $218.00

Quad C: 169 players @ $1.00/player = $169.00

Quad D: 50 players @ $0.25/player = $12.50

Total: $419.50


In order of size, I believe the largest scholastic events are:

1. State Team Championship

2. Quad B

3. Quad C

4. State Individual Championship

5. Grade Level Championship

6. Quad A

7. Quad D

If I’m correct, this means the KCA is outsourcing its second and third largest tournaments and expecting to receive about $400 in compensation. This places the majority of financial burden on the State Team Championship, the State Individual Championship, and the Grade Level Championship. Are these three tournaments expected to bring in at least $1,980.50? Keep in mind that the free rental State Team site used at UK the past two years will not be available and State Individual is expected to be a two day tournament, with greater site rental expenses.


April 15, 2015 at 11:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Posts: 233

Good pt Ken. I hope the Board thought of a budget on these matters.

-- - Open chess tournament information

April 15, 2015 at 12:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan Velez
Posts: 272

Yes Ken! We have! We did this back in December!


In the past, the entirety of the stipends rested on the Grade Level and the State Team. With the Quads now helping out, that burden is eased from State Team. Over the past 2 years, John Simons (Quad B coordinator) gave money back to the KCA to show how beneficial it can be for the quads to help the KCA rather than being farmed out without any sort of recompense or benefit to the KCA.


The Grade Level Championship has always paid for one of the stipends even with its lower numbers. Thus, with the status quo of non-quad events staying the same, as stated in the Minutes when I wrote


"The non-Quad events – the Grade Level Championship, the State Individual, State Team, KY Open, etc… -- will be run as they have been in the past with the KCA taking in all of the profit after all expenses, including TD payments."


The 2014 - 2015 school year was the first year in 12 years (maybe more) where ALL scholastic events either did a tad better than break even or made a profit. Even the KCA Bughouse Event made a little money as opposed to breaking even like last year!


At the December KCA meeting Davis was charged with making a budget next year. He will be working with me, John Simons, and Matt Hassen to create a budget per non-quad event. The Quads will still be farmed out because it is logistically better to have representatives in each region who know the area, can secure sites, etc... For example, I am going to be the next Scholastic Coordinator but I have never been to Eastern KY to know what sites are available, how much they cost, etc... That is why the Quads pay per kid while all other KCA events will simply retain the profit.


If the KCA wants to be more in control of its events, and it needs to be to be 501c3 compliant, then that means it has to pay its own expenses in advance rather than relying on the checkbooks of others who then submit for reimbursement. Expenses include things like site fees, trophies, TDs, equipment, etc... Thus, the KCA needs a budget based on past expected income, revenue, and losses.


I have already scheduled the next 2 years of state championship events, including state team, and have found sites for them. The site fees are not outrageous at all, they are typical school rental fees which many organizers in KY take advantage of to run their own events. However, I cannot obtain contracts until school starts each year but talks are already in progress.


Regarding expenses, State Team would have made $600 more if we did not have Kaidanov on site. A lot of parents were extremely happy with Larry's decision to hire Kaidanov to go over games. Thus, if we have to pay for a site ($400 - $600) then we would not hire Kaidanov, obviously. The new pay-scale for TDs is also less than the last few year's TD budget. Finally, once the KCA finalizes its 501c3 status, it will be able to obtain donations as well.

The real challenge is making sure the KY Open doesn't drain the KCA coffers year to year. Also, the State Individual will be 2-day event but it will not lose money I am confident. I will do fnd raising for the event again as I did this year. I do not have a site yet for this event but am in talks to try to secure one (otherwise all other KCA events I have a site for).



KCA Scholastic Coordinator

April 15, 2015 at 12:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ken McDonald
Posts: 88

You can count me as one of the parents extremently happy to have GM Kaidanov on site at the State Team. Watching him analyze two of my son's games was an educational experience for me. I think this was money well spent!

April 15, 2015 at 1:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ken McDonald
Posts: 88

You may want to reexamine the tournament director compensation schedule approved. Aside from leaving out the most difficult TD job (pairing TD), it appears to base compensation for section TDs on the total number of participants in a tournament. A section TD will only oversee a subset of the tournament so the TD should only be paid for that subset. Please note that my goal is not to decrease overall TD compensation but to suggest ways to more closely tie compensation to responsibility.

Instead of focusing on TD certification, I suggest the roles and responsibilities be of primary consideration. Depending on the size of the tournament, the roles may overlap.


Pairing TD – Responsible for recording entrants, ensuring fees are paid, accepting USCF memberships, pairing players each round, determining winners, and rating the event.

I would suggest consulting with persons having experience serving as pairing TD to see what usual compensation is. I believe Johnny Owens serves as a pairing TD in Nashville frequently. Allen Priest has served as a pairing TD at both the state and national level. Mike Amos, Larry Bell, and John Simons have all served as Pairing TDs and may have some insight. Given the scope of their responsibility, this should be the most highly compensated TD position and should be tied to the number of entrants. My best guess would be somewhere on the order of $2.00-$3.00 per entrant. I suggest $2.00 as the low end because I have been told this value was used by the KCA some years ago.


Chief Floor TD – Responsible for all significant on the floor rulings.


A scale like that suggested above might be appropriate for Chief Floor TD, although I suspect the money is a bit low for the responsibility. I like tying compensation to TD certification. Responsibility increases as the size of the tournament increases so I think this should have a per entrant compensation component. Perhaps tie certification to the flat rate component of the compensation?


Section TD – Responsible for overseeing a subset of the tournament. Performs standard adjudication of issues, but consults with the Chief Floor TD on more complex or controversial rulings.


I would suggest paying a flat rate, as the number of section TDs will increase with size. I think it’s a good idea to increase the flat rate when the TD has a higher certification.





April 15, 2015 at 1:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan Velez
Posts: 272

Our  numbers are based on comments from John Simons, Larry Bell, and Allen Priest specifically.

The idea of a $100 flat fee per TD is that almost every KCA event, even the events that don't do very well, can afford this fee without losing money. The amounts per entry based on TD level of experience goes up because TD levels allow TDs to be in charge of different numbers of participants according to the USCF rules.

As sections within KCA events are usually quite close together, TDs within the KCA have not traditionally been in charge of any one section but navigate between sections as hands are raised. At Nationals, this makes sense because they have sections with hundreds of  kids. Within the KCA, it is usually somewhere between 40 - 100. 

The KCA is currently discussing the computer TD (or Pairing TD) position via e-mail. We forgot to discuss it, as mentioned in the Minutes, at the KCA meeting - simply an oversight. I started the discussion at $0.35 per entry for entering names into the computer and $0.35 for being the pairing TD the day of the event.

For example, if a tournament has 100 participants, a Senior TD is paid $100 base pay and then $0.50 per participant. Thus, this person would make $150. if this person is ALSO the pairing TD as well as the person who entered all of the names into the computer (these jobs are separate because they can be done by 2 different people) then that senior TD would make a total of 

$100 Base pay
$0.50 per participant for being a Senior TD ($50 total)
$0.70 per participant for being a Pairing TD & Entering all names ($70 total)

Total = $220 which is about $2.20 per entry total

The board is still discussing the $0.70 cent option.

April 15, 2015 at 1:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ken McDonald
Posts: 88

Ryan - I'm pleased to hear you did a budget analysis.

I'm still concerned over the triple whammy to income the KCA scholastic tournaments may face. John Simons provided $700 to the KCA from the 2014 Quad B proceeds. I don't have access to 2015 numbers so I can't speak about them. The amount will be decreased to $218 under the planned fee schedule. Even counting income from Quads A,C, and D, they KCA is expected to receive about $300 less.

You are looking at 2 days additional tournament site fees - one for State Team and one for State Individual. Did the KCA make enough profit to cover that this year? You mentioned TD compensation was decreasing. How much does the KCA expect to gain here?Can you give more detail as to what scale has been used in the past and why it is being changed? 

Finally, you mentioned equiptment cost. Does the KCA rent chess sets and boards for it's major tournaments? If they do, how much do they pay per set? Would it be in the best interest of the KCA to buy sets at the National High School Championship and have their own sets?

April 15, 2015 at 1:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ken McDonald
Posts: 88

Ryan - since you plan to maintain a 50:1 ratio of TD to competitor, I don't think it should matter whether a Section TD truely stays within one section. It's about spreading around this responsibility among a number of people. It makes no sense to pay each TD based on all entrants when they split up the work.

April 15, 2015 at 1:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan Velez
Posts: 272

Did the KCA make enough profit to cover that this year?

Davis can speak on the amounts the KCA made this past year at the KCA board meeting. The only thing I know is that the KCA scholastic events did not lose any money.


You mentioned TD compensation was decreasing. How much does the KCA expect to gain here?


I think KCA will gain here because club level TDs will not be paid $200 like they were this year (the vast majority of TDs who were at State Team, etc...) In general, you will have one or two TDs making over $200 at a 400+ player event and the rest will be $100.


Can you give more detail as to what scale has been used in the past and why it is being changed?


No consistent scale has been used in the past which was the point of us adopting one: now we can be consistent. In the past, sometimes TDs volunteered, sometimes TDs got paid $1 - $2 per entrant, sometimes TDs were paid a flat fee, etc...


Therefore, we're changing from "no system" to a standardized system. The reason for changing is clear: you cannot put together a budget if you do not know your expenses.


Finally, you mentioned equiptment cost. Does the KCA rent chess sets and boards for it's major tournaments? Would it be in the best interest of the KCA to buy sets at the National High School Championship and have their own sets?


I was actually referring to tables and chairs and miscellaneous things like paper, printer ink, etc... In the past, the KCA has paid $1 per set in rental fees I think. But this year all sets and clocks were donated for use. Usually, the KCA does not have sets provided, I just like to bring my sets with me to help the event run more efficiently.


I do not believe it is in the KCA's interest to own a bunch of physical assets because the KCA has no where to store said physical assets. I do not think having 200 chess sets to run chess events with is a necessary KCA expense because most KCA events, historically, were run without sets being provided for everyone. Larry asked us to bring chess sets over the past 2 years and so we did.


Regarding the flat rate vs per kid concept

Until I proposed something to the board, no one ever gave an answer to my question "What is reasonable comp for tournament directors?" TDs have been paid in so many different ways and so many different amounts there really is no consistency.


Please propose a flat rate system based on TD certification level that you think makes sense. In the past, TDs who you supported very strongly got paid per entrant. But if you are now in favor of a flat rate per TD, please inform us of what you think each TD's time is worth based on certification level.


I concede that I am poor at math. If the system I proposed is flawed, it is fine to implement something that is better. But I'll have the world know that the worst math person in this community is the only one to put forth any sort of numbers to answer this question. I did this not because I assume I am right, but because I know it will generate discussion.


I'm going to chess club now. If you reply, i can reply likely tomorrow!




KCA Scholastic Coordinator

April 15, 2015 at 4:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ken McDonald
Posts: 88

"But if you are now in favor of a flat rate per TD,"

I only offered this suggestion for TDs whose responsibility is limited to a subset or "section" of the tournament. As I said, I think it, “makes no sense to pay each TD based on all entrants when they split up the work." Since the approximate size of these subsets would be 50:1, it seemed logical to consolidate fee structure into a flat rate rather than add a per person component. The Chief Floor TD and Pairing TD both have jobs that scale to larger responsibility with larger numbers. I suggested those positions have their compensation be paid based on entrants. That recommendation hasn’t changed.

The USCF requires each tournament to have a Chief Tournament Director, who is responsible for all play. Your original fee structure did not have any differentiation between payment made to a Chief TD and any other TD working the Floor. Presumably the Chief TD would be have a higher TD certification and be paid on a higher scale, but that might not always be true. Also, I don’t think the difference would make up for the much greater responsibility of the Chief TD. In most tournaments, I would think the Chief TD would be what I call the Chief Floor TD, though there might be overlap with the Pairing TD, depending on size of tournament and experience of the TDs.


The $420 total income expected from the Quad events seems minimal and is actually lower than that provided by John Simons for Quad B in the recent past. If the KCA wants to grow scholastic chess in Kentucky it will need money to support initiatives. Opportunities for income are limited and should not be overlooked. To simply say, we’ll take $1 per entrant and you can have the rest after expenses seems rather simplistic. The KCA owes it to itself to be more diligent in its financial affairs. The KCA should perform a review of Quad B and C finances and figure how much money is made. This would allow them to better determine a fair split between the organizer and the KCA.


April 15, 2015 at 5:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply

You must login to post.