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Forum Home > KCA Issues > Pay for TDs & Organizers

Ryan Velez
Member
Posts: 272

At the K9 Nationals in Louisville KY a few weeks ago, I spoke to 12 different people in different states who pay TDs to run events for state associations and businesses. At the K6 Nationals this past weekend I spoke to 20 additional state reps who gave me their input as well. Lastly, I know how much TDs have been paid in the KCA. Here are my findings:

(1) An organizer fee is never $0.00 (zero).
(2) A large amount of states pay based on TD certification (so this was a good idea).
(3) Some states care about TD to Player ratio and some do not.
(3a) Some states also tend to have 600+ kids in qualifier events and have issues finding enough TDs (Texas; NY).
(4) Most states pay flat fees for TDs, including USCF.
(5) The range for TDs & organizers was "$80 - All the Profit" depending on the state, the event, and who was in charge.
(6) "Computer TD" and "organizer" are nearly always synonymous across states (as in, most people who do one, do the other).

TD Payscale Concept
After looking at numbers here is what it looks like a fair wage would be:

Club = $100
Local = $150
Senior = $200
ANTD = $250
NTD = $300

First off, the only event that might sometimes need an NTD or ANTD would be State Team or some of the Quads if they reach more than 400 kids. Also, ANTDs and NTDs can volunteer or offer to do events for less as well, that is always an option everyone has.

Organizer Payment Concept
If we can agree that most computer TDs are typically the organizers as well (this is true for Steve Dillard, Mike Amos, Allen Priest, John Simons, and likely others), then we can merge these concepts for discussion purposes. However, we all agree that "all the profit" is unreasonable for organizer compensation as it would mean the KCA makes nothing.

Therefore, it makes sense to me to pay the organizer an amount per participant. That means the organizer has an incentive to get as many people to go to an event as possible and it means it is somewhat under control in terms of the KCA benefiting from the event itself.

If the organizer is typically also a TD, which has been true throughout the entire KCA history, then you could use the same TD certification levels as well. Thus, an organizer could get paid based on the following tiers:

Club TD = $0.25 per player
Local = $0.50 per player
Senior = $0.75 per player
ANTD/NTD = $1.00 per player

Conclusions
Yes, this means at a 350 player event, like State Team, the computer TD who is a local TD could make $175 + $150 = $325 because it means he both organized the event and ran the computer. State Team in 2015 did cost $1,400 but using the above system it would cost

5 Club TDs = $500
1 Local TD = $150
1 Senior TD = $200

Senior Computer TD (State Team) = 305 kids x $0.75 = $228.75
Local Computer TD (Alternates section) = 122 kids x $0.50 = $61

Therefore, the total would have been $$1,139.75... If instead we had 6 local TDs, the cost would have been $1,389.75 which is still under this year's mark. I know of a few TDs who will not show up for $100. So, this gives them an incentive to up their TD certification level.

If any members wish to put forth more ideas please do. I'm going to table this to the board in an e-mail next week.

Personal Note
I really believe going to 2 different events, in 2 different states, speaking with people from 32 different places, writing notes, discussing TD pay within the KCA with as many ex/current TDs, and putting forth a payscale is a heck of a lot more effort than most people would have put in to obtain the above numbers as fair. Respect that.

--Ryan

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KCA Scholastic Coordinator

May 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Allen Priest
Member
Posts: 170

Some of the different responses you got probably had to do with the view that the events were managed by theaffiliate or run by the affiliate.  the only events the KCA has been running are the Ky Open, the state teama nd the state individual.  the quads were traditionally managed by the KCA to make sure they happened but not run by the KCA.  Othere events like the class, or action, or blitz usually were done by someone else - even submitted under a different affiliate  with the risk of loss going to theperson running it.  If the KCA has the risk of loss then by all means limit what the person doing it gets.  But if the risk of loss is all on the person doing the event, then the KCA has to tread really carefully in limiting what the person running the event might make from it.  Otherwise events don't happen.


I don't think you pay an orgnaizer fee based on TD certification levels.  the TD level doesn't change the amount of work involved.  And taking all of the entries, dealing with money, etc is a whole lot of work.


When I was doing it we paid TDs/organizers on a per player basis.  I generally paid Steve Dillard as an NTCD $1 per player when he was just working the floor.  I was paying other TDs usualy the same $1 per player with the organizer handling all fo the entries and site work an additional $1 per player. 


That same thing applied for the state team - which had lots fo players, and for the state individual, which did not.


You also have other events that traditionally paid nothing - like the closed championships. 


The Ky open being a 2 day event makes different demands on the directors than does a one day event.


It may not be a one size fits all package.

June 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Allen Priest
Member
Posts: 170

The USCF used to pay TDs for the national events based on TD level.  That was stopped as it just was not right to pay an NTD serving as a floor tD more than a senior TD serving as a section chief - or to pay the NTD floor TD the same as the NTD floor chief. So the pay at these events is now based on the position and not the level of TD. Of course one has to be at a certain level of TD to do some of the different jobs at these events.

June 3, 2015 at 4:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Winchester
Member
Posts: 38

Allen, Maybe this should be asked in the USCF forums, but I'll ask here first. Are all TDs, subordinate to the Sections Chief's, at the Nationals paid the same regardless of level? I mean, a Local (or even Club) level floor TD is paid the same as a Senior or NTD?

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June 3, 2015 at 7:18 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ryan Velez
Member
Posts: 272

Yea I understand your point for sure.

Essentially, I have to pay myself and figure out a fair way to do it. No one has really seemed to care about TD pay over the entire history of the KCA, just very recently.


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KCA Scholastic Coordinator

June 11, 2015 at 9:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Allen Priest
Member
Posts: 170

Terry Winchester at June 3, 2015 at 7:18 PM

Allen, Maybe this should be asked in the USCF forums, but I'll ask here first. Are all TDs, subordinate to the Sections Chief's, at the Nationals paid the same regardless of level? I mean, a Local (or even Club) level floor TD is paid the same as a Senior or NTD?

Yes. At national events TDs are paid byt he job and not the TD level.  So all section chiefs are paid the same.  All foor TDs are paid the same.

June 13, 2015 at 12:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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